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TOPIC: Anger with Hashem

Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #890

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How do you deal with anger with Hashem?
I feel like it's affecting many aspects of my life and I don't want to feel this way... But when I asked my teacher about it she said that every Jews tafkid is to be ok with not understanding stuff and that a Jew should not be asking such a thing.b :ohmy:
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #891

  • Hadas Bat-el
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Hey Not Sure!
Welcome to FHO!

I have to disagree with your teacher on this one, a Jew can ask anything! I don't really understood how "A Jew's tafkid is to be ok with not understanding some stuff" as answer to dealing with anger from Hashem. :side:
True, some stuff we cannot understand, but what does that have to do with anger?

Do you want to share more about your anger? Where is it coming from? Why do you feel that way? I'd love to hear more about how you feel.

Side note: feeling anger towards Hashem is a normal feeling many people have. Understanding Hashem and this world can be confusing at times, and even when it's not you are entitled to feel things, and I don't think pretending your feelings don't exist helps much. I know plenty of people who hold things against Hashem, and they are working it out....that's what we're here for, to work on ourselves, and to work things out.

Hope to see you on more positive threads around here too!
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #892

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BTW massive kudos to you for acknowledging this feeling and wanting to deal with it! :cheer:
Welcome to the FHO forum!
I'm Hadas Bat-el founder of FHO! I'm also a poet, blogger, writer, copywriter, and proud redhead! You can read my blog here: frumhangout.com/index.php/blog/item/hadas-bat-el-2 , I post every Sunday!

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Last Edit: 2 years 5 months ago by Hadas Bat-el.
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #894

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I think it's probably coming from the feeling that no matter what I do- the doors keep slamming in my face. Yes, life isn't perfect, and nisyonos are there as a springboard for growth, etc, but when there is no end to the problems there is no room for growth, only survival.
I guess it's sort of coming from tzadik v'ra lo, and sort of from the feeling that I had an extremely close relationship with Him and I feel pretty abandoned and maybe even a bit betrayed.
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #895

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(I tried to post and I don't think it went thru; still trying to get to know the site :) )
I think it's coming form the place where I feel that all the doors are being slammed in my face- like I know that nisyonos are supposed to be a springboard for growth but when there is all survival there's no room for growth.
Also I always had a very close relationship with Hashem so I sort of feel... alone and betrayed.
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #898

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Hi again!
All posts are moderated, it can take a bit for them to get up.

It sounds like you are angry at Hashem for all these bad things that are happening to you?
That's a bit of a different question, that's more about coming to terms with "bad" things and trying to understand why Hashem gives us "bad" in our life. I thought we had a few threads on the topic but I can't find them now. Want a Rabbi to answer this?

Also although you may not see you are growing through survival, your muscles are getting stronger. Take this mashal, of someone thrown into the middle of the ocean and trying ti survive, all their treading will build themselves muscles, even if they feel like they aren't getting somewhere, and when you leave this survival mode that is when you will see them.
Welcome to the FHO forum!
I'm Hadas Bat-el founder of FHO! I'm also a poet, blogger, writer, copywriter, and proud redhead! You can read my blog here: frumhangout.com/index.php/blog/item/hadas-bat-el-2 , I post every Sunday!

I can't wait to get to know you all! So what are you waiting for?! START POSTING!

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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #900

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Hi Not sure!
First of all its awesome that you're being honest with yourself and your feelings cuz that the only way to grow...
Anger with Hashem as well as any other negative emotion we feel when we go through tough things are normal and understandable. Sometimes we think that if were angry then Hashem if probably too and it gives us a reason to hurt.
Know, that Hashem isn't afraid of your anger and the best thing you can do with it is tell Him all about it. Share with Him why its so hard, why you feel abandoned and why you feel you cant grow - because telling Him is connecting to Him and that's the greatest growth of all.
Don't be afraid to feel and don't be afraid to tell Him that you do. The closeness you feel you used to have will come out to be stronger and realer this way.
(I heard this from a noted Rav)
Hatzlacha Raba!
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #901

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i am going thru the same idea i had gone thru a shidduch that was happening and after being 99%engaged it broke up and then started anew with another one and it broke even faster and then a third that broke i am very (upset,angry) at hashem and dont exactly know how to take it it makes me depressed i am told a whole time its bashert but why bashert for me this way around
thanks in advance if somone can get my thoughts straight
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #902

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@StillFighting, love your post! Lots of great ideas!

@Poland Welcome to FHO! Wow, as someone currently in shidduchim I could not imagine going through what you are going through. I daven Hashem will send your bashert bekarov mamash! You sound like a strong soldier, we need more of you here! I hope to hear more from you around these parts :) .

We don't really know what Hashem has in store for us, for all you know your bashert in younger and hasn't started shidduchim yet. (Not sure how old you are..but yeah). I have a friend who after started shidduchim at 21 was engaged about 3 months later to a 27 year old. Now he had been dating since she was in 9th grade, but what could he do if his bashert hasn't started yet? I'd love to address some more of your feelings, so please share! I hope to hear happier posts from you in the future!
Welcome to the FHO forum!
I'm Hadas Bat-el founder of FHO! I'm also a poet, blogger, writer, copywriter, and proud redhead! You can read my blog here: frumhangout.com/index.php/blog/item/hadas-bat-el-2 , I post every Sunday!

I can't wait to get to know you all! So what are you waiting for?! START POSTING!

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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #904

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Hey Not Sure, I totally get you.
I've been feeling that way too lately, just doors slammed in my face. I'm definitely following this thread to hear everyone else's ideas.

I try to focus on the positive stuff, even with all the doors getting slammed, some of them you realize go to those scary closets with monsters inside, and you only find this out much later. Also it leaves less decisions left for the doors that are actually open and gives you the opportunity to pray to Hashem for the right door to open wide for you.
It got dark, you think you've been buried but in reality you've just been planted.
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #906

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@Hadas Batel-
That would be great if a Rabbi could answer. My only thing I would add is that I don't really understand why I am feeling this way, since I've always had a very close relationship with Hashem even in the toughest of times.
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re:Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #907

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I close the door to my room and say what I want to say. Many people say things about God that rub me the wrong way and I've learned to be fine with being offended over things that I just cannot agree with. Human beings are social creatures and disapproval hurts. That's an objective fact. It is possible that we perceive yissurim as a type of "disapproval" from God which is why we might feel angry towards Him. Whatever the case may be, if we don't express our feelings now, then they'll come back more powerful and they will be much harder to manage, God forbid. It's ok to be in pain and to feel frustration over not understanding things. It really is. We shouldn't pressure our kids to maintain a standard of "perfect faith" that just isn't realistic . . .
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #908

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I let Hashem know that I'm angry with/at Him. He is big enough to handle it. As a father, I always appreciate the open communication from my children when they tell me that they're' mad, angry, upset, frustrated, etc. at me. It's far better than me knowing/seeing their anger by them ignoring me. And contrary to what your teacher told you, your struggle is a very common one. David HaMelech struggled with this as well. Just keep an open dialogue with Hashem from a place of wanting to have a relationship with Him, not from a place of whining.
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #910

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i agree with zkpr51 and velvetelvis - great posts,
i love this topic, it's giving me a lot of food for thought, it's so hard figuring yourself out in these matters, to what point is it right, at what point do we need to be careful (at all points) not to take this anger/ disappointment too far,
thanks not sure for starting this conversation, this is something most if not all Jews struggle with and hey it's about time we be open about it here.
good luck to all of us...
life gets hard, in Shidduchim but not only, there are so many struggles out there and no 2 people have it the same, and its almost automatic to question Hashem, then w/ the struggle we also need to figure out our feelings with Hashem and the guilty feelings about it...
i would love to hear what the rabbi's here have to say about it, please get them on this Hadas Batel, thnx.
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #915

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I think it's important to give up the guilt about being angry with Hashem. Be okay with being authentic with Him and yourself. The guilt only compounds the issues and generally, guilt is a lazy form of being responsible. If you can do something about it, then do it. If not, leave it but DON'T feel guilty about having an honest dialogue with Hashem who loves us more than we'll ever comprehend. He welcomes it and is waiting for us. For what it's worth, I'm dating again too and I understand the challenges. There are times that I just break down, cry to Hashem, let Him know that I'm angry and that I'm hurting. Remember this: All anger is rooted in some form of unexpressed pain. So just let it rip. HE can and will handle it.
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #916

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What am I asking the Rabbis? Their opinion? So far it seems to be a more emotionally based question...but I guess I'll just show them the whole thread and ask them to comment their thoughts.

Welcome zkpr51 and Velvetelvis! Wow so many users! I am so humbled to be the shaliach for these connections and conversations! Keep it up! Great stuff from both of you!
Welcome to the FHO forum!
I'm Hadas Bat-el founder of FHO! I'm also a poet, blogger, writer, copywriter, and proud redhead! You can read my blog here: frumhangout.com/index.php/blog/item/hadas-bat-el-2 , I post every Sunday!

I can't wait to get to know you all! So what are you waiting for?! START POSTING!

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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #917

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Hadas Bat-el wrote:
that's more about coming to terms with "bad" things and trying to understand why Hashem gives us "bad" in our life. I thought we had a few threads on the topic but I can't find them now. Want a Rabbi to answer this?

.
we want you to ask the rabbis about this and all other Hashkafic ideas that can go into these feelings towards Hashem and accepting him and the feelings
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #918

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Seems like were all pretty much on the same page in expressing our emotions to the One that could contain them all.
like zkpr41 said, anger is really an expression of unexpressed pain, and it goes a long way to acknowledge that, feel it and then grow through it.
When "bad" things happen - i dont believe were trying angry - as much as were hurting and feel rejected and the antitode to that is maintaing a relationship of honesty. Our feelings, as real as they seem - will change and move on when we give them a channel to pass through.
If you're interested in listening or reading something on the topic i can recommend but wont do so without approvel first
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #919

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@Malach, e-mail has been sent.
@StillFighting. What do you suggest? Put it in a post and I'll see.
Welcome to the FHO forum!
I'm Hadas Bat-el founder of FHO! I'm also a poet, blogger, writer, copywriter, and proud redhead! You can read my blog here: frumhangout.com/index.php/blog/item/hadas-bat-el-2 , I post every Sunday!

I can't wait to get to know you all! So what are you waiting for?! START POSTING!

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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #921

I actually think that anger at Hashem is a good thing. If you asked your best friend to borrow a dollar and they slammed the door in your face you'd be angry! You wouldn't just resign yourself to saying 'gam zu l'tova'! Because if it's your friend, and you know that they love you, and you're asking for something small, of course they should give it to you! With Hashem, all the more so! He loves you and can afford to give you whatever you want. Aha, so why doesn't He?

Either we're not doing the proper hishtadlus or maybe we're asking for the wrong thing. Hashem wants us to have the best of everything.
Rabbi Moshe Zeldman lectures on a wide variety of Jewish topics to audiences around the world. He teaches Jewish philosophy at the Aish HaTorah Yeshiva in Jerusalem to both beginners and advanced students, as well as many other educational institutions in Israel. He also lectures internationally for the world-famous Discovery Seminar. Born and raised in Canada, Rabbi Zeldman did his undergraduate work in Artificial Intelligence and Philosophy at the University of Toronto. During his studies he developed an interest in political issues affecting the Jewish community, and became involved in student activism, becoming national chairman of the Jewish Students Network, and served on the board of the World Union of Jewish Students. His interests in Jewish leadership and advocacy led him eventually to pursue studies in traditional Judaism. He made aliyah in 1991 and received rabbinical ordination from Yeshivat Aish HaTorah in Jerusalem. He teaches a variety of Jewish topics for Aish HaTorah, AEPi, Birthright, the Maimonides program at Princeton, Tel Aviv and Hebrew University, NCSY, Hillel, and the esteemed University of Cambridge Cholent Society. He has helped establish outreach centers in South and Central America, has lectured to Jewish communities in over 15 countries around the world, and founded the Core18 Leaders Lab for Jewish social entrepreneurs. Rabbi Zeldman lives in Jerusalem with his family.
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #922

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Hello everyone.

Such a beautiful discussion. I don't know how much I can add. Kudos to Hadas Bat-El who has written such beautiful, and profound ideas. Yasher kochaich.

Here's a thought:

The Piasetzner Rebbe writes in a number of places (in his sefer Aish Kodesh) that Hashem hurts when we hurt. The Degel Machane Ephraim (the Grandson of the Baal Shem Tov) writes the same idea and adds that, actually, Hashem's hurt hurts more than ours does since He is infinite, and therefore His pain in infinite. Our pain, by force, is finite, since we are.

If so, this means that Hashem is willing to hurt infinitely for us. He hurts when we hurt, even though He gives us our hurt. Why? Because the pain has purpose and meaning. Its supposed to help us become bigger and stronger. Just like muscle building. And Hashem knows that if we grow from it the way we can, and become who it is we are supposed to become, we ourselves will say that who we became was worth all the pain. Just like a strong man says after building his muscles. If, through the pain, we really become who it is that we can become, and we achieve what is that we can achieve through the pain, then when we look back, we will say it was worth the pain. My muscles were worth the pain it took to build them.

Hashem believes in us and in what we can become. And who we can become will make all the pain of becoming it, worth it. Yes, indeed, our greatness is worth fighting for. Our greatness is bigger than the pain.

Of course we can spend our life complaining about the pain, and not growing from it. We can be bitter and gripe. But then, at the end of it all, since we have not become great, it turns out that our pain wasn't worth it. And we spent our life hurting for nothing. We hurt, but gained no muscles. What a waste. What's worse is that Hashem hurt infinitely... for nothing, because of us. He believed in us and we let Him down. Now who should be upset at who? We have to believe in ourselves as much as Hashem believes in us and make our pain worth it.

Now, if what I wrote didn't help, my recommendation is that you see a therapist to help you work through your pain. That is the most efficient way to help you feel better.
Rabbi Kahane is menahel of Chedvas Bais Yaakov in Yerushalayim. Originally from Memphis, Tennessee, Rabbi Kahane is a dynamic and sought after speaker. With a mix of deep machshava and meaningful messages, Rabbi Kahane appeals to a wide range of audiences. He teaches in every level of Jewish education from frontline kiruv at Aish HaTorah's Discovery Seminar and JEWEL program, to Bais Yaakov. Besides Chedvas, Rabbi Kahane teaches in a number of schools including Bnot Torah Institute (Sharfman's), Pninim Seminary, Lahav Bais Yaakov, Seminar Yerushalayim, Bais Yaakov Kesser Chaya, Neve Yerushalayim and lectures in almost every major Jewish institution in Yerushalayim including Hebrew University. He teaches Gemara in Aish HaTorah's Bais Medrish program and formerly taught machshava in Yeshivas Ohr Yerushalayim and Yeshivas Ohr Dovid. Rabbi Kahane is also leads the "Nesivos" Bais Yaakov trip to Poland. Rabbi Kahane earned his smicha from HaRav HaGaon Rav Moshe Meiselman shlit'a in Yerushalayim and studied both under him and HaRav HaGaon Rav Simcha Maimon shlit"a. Rabbi Kahane has become known worldwide as a highly innovative educator and serves as educational consultant for a number of Jewish institutions in Israel. Rabbi Kahane lives in the Maalot Dafna neighborhood of Yerushalayim with his wife and family.
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #923

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Rabbi Moshe Zeldman wrote:
I actually think that anger at Hashem is a good thing. If you asked your best friend to borrow a dollar and they slammed the door in your face you'd be angry! You wouldn't just resign yourself to saying 'gam zu l'tova'! Because if it's your friend, and you know that they love you, and you're asking for something small, of course they should give it to you! With Hashem, all the more so! He loves you and can afford to give you whatever you want. Aha, so why doesn't He?

Either we're not doing the proper hishtadlus or maybe we're asking for the wrong thing. Hashem wants us to have the best of everything.
~veering slightly off topic~
So then how can you know what IS the proper hishtadlus? What is the WRONG hishtadlus? How much of it is actually needed?
And how can one tell if it's hishtadlus that is missing or it's actually the wrong thing and won't be answered no matter what?

Thank you

I think hishtadlus depends on the situation, it is something you need to think about and it's different for everyone.

But I'm sending this to the Rabbis.
- Hadas Bat-el
Last Edit: 2 years 5 months ago by Hadas Bat-el.
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #924

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Not Sure wrote:
I think hishtadlus depends on the situation, it is something you need to think about and it's different for everyone.

But I'm sending this to the Rabbis.
- Hadas Bat-el
Thanks!
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #925

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if you're in for listening to an unbelievable speaker - Try Rabbi YY Jacobson Basics of Emunah 24 How Emotionally Honest Are You with Yourself Your Spouse G-d.
He's openminded, engaging, clear and true.
If i'm not wrong he addresses the issue of anger with Hashem in this one.
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Anger with Hashem 2 years 5 months ago #926

It’s a great question. For some people, their mistake is not doing enough hishtadlus or the right kind of hishtadlus. And for some people, they might be doing too much hishtadlus and not trusting Hashem enough! So which one is it for you? I can give you two answers:
1) look at your own patterns in life. If you tend to be very stubborn and feel a need to control things, it makes sense that Hashem would be giving you a message to step back. If you tend to be too easy going, or not so open to new options in life, it makes sense that Hashem would be telling you to try harder or try something different.

2) Hashem wants you to succeed in life! And you knows what you understand and what you don’t. He’s not going to leave you hanging. If you’re honestly open and seeking to do ratzon Hashem, there’s no way He’ll hold back from showing you what you need to do.

Hashem should give you the koach and open mind and heart to understand and do His will.
Rabbi Moshe Zeldman lectures on a wide variety of Jewish topics to audiences around the world. He teaches Jewish philosophy at the Aish HaTorah Yeshiva in Jerusalem to both beginners and advanced students, as well as many other educational institutions in Israel. He also lectures internationally for the world-famous Discovery Seminar. Born and raised in Canada, Rabbi Zeldman did his undergraduate work in Artificial Intelligence and Philosophy at the University of Toronto. During his studies he developed an interest in political issues affecting the Jewish community, and became involved in student activism, becoming national chairman of the Jewish Students Network, and served on the board of the World Union of Jewish Students. His interests in Jewish leadership and advocacy led him eventually to pursue studies in traditional Judaism. He made aliyah in 1991 and received rabbinical ordination from Yeshivat Aish HaTorah in Jerusalem. He teaches a variety of Jewish topics for Aish HaTorah, AEPi, Birthright, the Maimonides program at Princeton, Tel Aviv and Hebrew University, NCSY, Hillel, and the esteemed University of Cambridge Cholent Society. He has helped establish outreach centers in South and Central America, has lectured to Jewish communities in over 15 countries around the world, and founded the Core18 Leaders Lab for Jewish social entrepreneurs. Rabbi Zeldman lives in Jerusalem with his family.
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